Wednesday, August 20, 2008

Traveling to Germany and schengen area is allowed with expired permit and poste intalian receipt (permesso+ricevuta)

The new circular published on http://www.interno.it/
"Dal 1° agosto 2008 al 31 gennaio 2009 i cittadini in attesa di regolarizzazione del permesso di soggiorno possono transitare nell’area Schengen"
according to this new circular, starting from 1st AUG 2008 to 31 Jan 2009, one can transit via schengen countries while going to their home country with the expired permit and ricevuta along with a passport.

Update: Recently I found on the Fragomen site, which says that "Both first time and renewal applicants may travel to Schengen countries if they obtain a temporary travel residence permit directly from their local police station (Questura)."

Please do not believe this Fragmon website, Now I have found the link on the Official Journal of the European Union, where the poste italiana ricevuta along with the expired residence permit (permesso di soggiorno) is allowed as a residence permit to travel to schengen states/ countries.

The Update of the list of residence permits has been Published and can be downloaded from the following link:
In ENglish
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2008:207:0012:0013:EN:PDF
In Italian
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2008:207:0012:0013:IT:PDF

In All EU language
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/Notice.do?mode=dbl&lang=en&lng1=en,it&lng2=bg,cs,da,de,el,en,es,et,fi,fr,hu,it,lt,lv,mt,nl,pl,pt,ro,sk,sl,sv,&val=477005:cs&page=1&hwords=

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/ is the official european union documentation server or gateway to the EU law which givens the online access to European Union law and is updated regularly.

You can find this text in this article

ITALY
Additional type of residence permit
— Special Italian Post Office receipt for residence permit renewal application The use of the Special Italian Post Office receipt is possible exclusively in conjunction with the passport of the alien and the expired residence permit. This receipt will be used from 1 August 2008 until 31 January 2009.

Now you can take the printout of this pdf to avoid any confusion.

This article is exclusively for Update of the list of residence permits referred to in Article 2(15) of Regulation (EC) No 562/2006 of the European Parliament and of the Council establishing a Community Code on the rules governing the movement of persons across borders (Schengen Borders Code) (OJ C 247, 13.10.2006, p. 1, OJ C 153, 6.7.2007, p. 5, OJ C 192, 18.8.2007, p. 11, OJ C 271, 14.11.2007, p. 14, OJ C 57, 1.3.2008, p. 31, OJ C 134, 31.5.2008, p. 14)

Article 2(15) of Regulation (EC) No 562/2006 of the European Parliament
15. ‘residence permit’ means:
(a) all residence permits issued by the Member States according to the uniform format laid down by Council Regulation (EC) No 1030/2002 of 13 June 2002 laying down a uniform format for residence permits for thirdcountry nationals (2);
(b) all other documents issued by a Member State to thirdcountry
nationals authorising a stay in, or re-entry into, its territory, with the exception of temporary permits issued pending examination of a first application for a residence permit as referred to in point (a) or an application for asylum;


Before this article on EU website, it was little bit confusing, whether this new circular allow us to travel to schengen countries or not. To avoid further confusion. I wrote an email to German embassy. At first reply they wrote to me that " unfortunately I have to inform you that the new circular only speaks about transit via Schengen countries on the way to your home country, not about business, holiday or family visit visa without leaving the Schengen area."

After few days, I received one mail from German embassy, Rome, which says that now german embassy has accepted this circular ans also allowed the foreigners in Italy having applied for their renewal of permesso can travel to Germany for a short visit (upto 90 days in every 180 days). Here is the mail

============================
Dear Sir

About two weeks ago we were informed by Italian officials, that, in contradiction to the new circular given by the Italian Ministry of Internal Affairs, the postal receipt and the old Italian residence permit should also allow to go for short visits to other Schengen members. This information was given to us on demand and not circulated by Italian officials.

We verified the information, with the German border police, which was also not informed by the Italian authorities about the new regulations. Finally the German Ministry for Internal Affairs decided to accept the new Italian regulation, though it had not been published the correct way.
About a week ago the German Officials send out an order to all border controll postings, to accept the old Italian residence permit together with the Postal receipt and a valid passport as a valid travel document to enter Germany.

My reply to you was dated August 6th, so some time before the new regulation came out. By then the information was complete and correct.
I'm sorry that confusion is caused but I want to reiterate , that it is not the German authorities taking one decision and communicating another.

Sincerely
b.o.
Jana Kirch


Generalkonsulat der Bundesrepublik Deutschland
Consolato Generale della Repubblica Federale di Germania
I - Via Solferino 40, 20121 Milano
Tel: 0039 02 62311030
Fax: 0039 02 6554213
===============================

Its a good news for US, now enjoy travelling to schengen coutries with your expired permit.

If you want the copy of the mail, please leave your email ID, I will forward it to you.

28 comments:

  1. can u please send me teh email adress

    dineshabt@yahoo.co,uk

    i wantto travel german with receipt and old permit of stay fr a conference of 3 days this month pls...

    ReplyDelete
  2. Hey Vikas, Great Info !! send me a copy too. :) ferns1@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  3. hey please can you send me the copy the email with full headers. my email id is ultrasivacivil@yahoo.com

    thank you your links and post.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Do you have update of this circular .
    By following this circular could it be possible to transit through schengen state with expired stay permit visa and posatl recepit this year also i mean from dec 2009 to feb2010.

    ReplyDelete
  5. no it is not possible, as of now there is not such circular this year, better to transit via gulf airlines like turkish, qatar, emirate etc

    ReplyDelete
  6. problem is that i already buy ticket to India Finnar airlines and my transit is through helsinki.
    Do you have any more suugestion

    ReplyDelete
  7. better you cancel it and rebook your flight via gulf airlines. Otherwise going to India would not be a peoblem for you via finnair, but entering back to Schengen/Italy could be a problem.

    So decide accordingly, If you are in orkut , then plese read the forum of Indians in ITaly.

    ReplyDelete
  8. do you know any emailid of a person in italian embassy who can clear the situation

    ReplyDelete
  9. this situation is persistent for the last two years and everybody is helpless now..., please go to local questura to confirm the situation.., moreover you can read the rules at
    http://www.poliziadistato.it/articolo/10617

    and then click on the Awaiting residence permit

    ReplyDelete
  10. Have you gone through this
    www.esteri.it/MAE/EN/Ministero/Servizi/Stranieri/ServReteConsolare.htm#passports

    ReplyDelete
  11. Don't forget that you don't have valid permit, you have expired permit along with ricevuta and the link which gave just now is only for the valid visa and permit holders.

    rest is up to you to believe or not.

    I have personally travelled 3 times between India and Italy (2 times with expired permit with non shcengen flights and one time with permit with lufthansa)

    There was lot of confusion in the begining of this problem, I personally contacted the embassy and also took the letter from them in Jan 2008, but now the process is smoother, just take the non schengen flight and everything would be fine.

    please read the form of Indians in Italy in Orkut, you will find all the answers of this query.., we have been discussing it for the last two years or so.

    ReplyDelete
  12. I mean to ask that passport is valid travel document,expired stay permit and rewal postal receipt through these documents could it be possible to travel.

    Actually i am very confuse

    ReplyDelete
  13. I think you did not read carefully the link of questura and made yourself confuse

    Finally

    YES, You can travel WITHOUT transiting schengen countries with
    1. VALID PASSPORT
    2. EXPIRED STAY PERMIT
    3. ITALIAN POST OFFICE RECEIPT OF APPLICATION OF PERMESSO


    Foreigners awaiting renewal of their residence permits can leave and re-enter Italy if they hold:

    * the receipt issued by Italian Post offices (Poste Italiane S.p.A) certifying the submission of the application for renewal of their residence permit or EC residence permit for long-term residents;
    * the expired residence permit;
    * their passport or other equivalent travel document .

    Provided that:

    * they leave and re-enter Italy through the same border crossing point;
    * they show their passport or other equivalent travel document, along with the entry visa specifying the reasons of their stay (employment, self-employment, or family reunification ) and the receipt issued by Italian Post offices (Poste Italiane S.p.A.);
    * they do not transit through other Schengen countries, as this is not allowed.

    ReplyDelete
  14. one last question after going back to india can i apply for new visa or not.(i am phd student in 2 year)

    ReplyDelete
  15. well, that depends on number of things..,

    If you have expired permint and have already applied for the renewal, you dont have to apply and if you apply they will not give a visa.

    If you are changing your course, like from Masters to PhD and have a gap in between, then you can apply for visa with all the supporting docs, then you may get visa.

    Having further questions.., read the forum in Indians in Italy in orkut or write your query, there are more number of people to reply you and help you....,

    ReplyDelete
  16. TO RATNA..........

    1) As Vikas told you, you cannot travel through any of schengen countries. (even a stop over also not permitted)

    2) In May 2009, I traveled to India via Air France with expired permit and postal receipt to India...

    3) After going to India, I applied for RE-ENTRY VISA....

    4) After 1 month, i got re-entry visa.. ( virtually i was fighting with New Delhi Embassy to get it)...

    5) I dont suggest you to follow me... ( the probability of getting Re-entry visa is 50-50...)

    5) the easiest way is to travel with Gulf airlines...

    6) Dont forget to get a stamp in your postal receipt at the Italian Airport before leaving Italy.. (otherwise you cannot enter to Italy) ****this is one of most important aspect****

    7) Admit your mistake not knowing the procedures and booked the tickets...

    8) This is the maximum help we can provide here...

    Wish you a happy journey...

    ReplyDelete
  17. thanks shiv,

    Thanks for more clarification.

    one time I was also in the same situation and delhi consulate refused to give me re-entry visa, luckily the boarder was opened that time and I could reenter again.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Thanks to both of you for providing valuable information

    ReplyDelete
  19. Hi,
    I need to travel to France / Spain during this Christmas holidays, but I have the receipt from the post office after applying for the renewal of permesso di soggiorno, I also got the letter fo identification in January. Will I be able to travel during this Christmas holidays ?? Please, can anyone tell me...

    ReplyDelete
  20. As you might have read the comments of our friends, it is advised to drop you plan,

    Otherwise, try to take temporary stay permit from questura.., which is difficult to get for tourism purpose..

    Good luck

    ReplyDelete
  21. I have confirmed with German Embassy, they told me this:
    unfortunately the expired italian permit of stay ("permesso di soggiorno") and the post receipt about the application of renewal don't allow you to travel through other Schengen States, incl. Germany.
    In order to fly to your Country via Germany you need a new valid italian permit of stay or a corresponding visa.
    The visa can be applied by the german Embassy in Rom only

    so u can not travel via Schengen states...

    -Atif

    ReplyDelete
  22. hi guys ...
    I want to ask how much time i can stay in my country with recivuta and expired permesso... I want to go to my country for 2 months but unfortounatly my permesso will expire in middle so i will apply for renewall before leaving but can i stay 2 months with recivuta??

    ReplyDelete
  23. Dear Vikas sir,
    As in invitation letter, after we invite someone - for tourism for less than 3 months, do we need to report at Questura (as they come form non-schengen area, or the passport control is enough) ?
    Thanks and regrds

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. please report within 8 days of arrival. You just need to fill a simple form.

      Delete
  24. my permesso di soggiorno along with other documents was stolen, i already booked a flight going to holland prior to the incident. can i travel to holland with a copy of my stolen permesso, passport and the receipt for renewal of my permesso since it was stolen? someone help me pls. its a very urgent situation and im running out of time going in different websites to help me.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't think you can travel without original permesso. Do you still have valid visa type "C" in your passport?

      Delete
  25. Hello

    Is the 2008 law/circular still valid? i need to travel to Hamburg for 3 days from Milano and my permit to stay is still under renewal (i have the post office receipt)

    Thanks a lot

    ReplyDelete
  26. Hi, i have applied for the renewal of my permesso di soggiorno however the questura hasn't issued it yet. I have a valid Ricevuta from the post office and was wondering if the Indian immigration officers accept the reicevuta as a valid visa. because it's in Italian and they may not understand / be aware of it's significance?

    ReplyDelete